We heard the Jawatankuasa Tanggagaji (JTG) resided on the 18th December 2008 to discuss an urgent issue, the doctors proposal for improved salary. The proposal consisted of three main issues, the revised scheme of service (i.e. basic pay), the on-call allowance & a proposal for professional allowance.
We don't know exactly what went on in the meeting because no doctors were allowed to be represented in it. However from a very senior doctor in the ministry the JTG has concluded that they will only approve resident and non-resident on call. Extended hours duty at On sum ping, medical cover and shift duty at A&E and CCM will not be considered as 'on call'.
According to a member of the team that represented our paper in the meeting, if MOH wants to compensate us for the extended hours, medical cover or shift duty, we should call it something else but not oncall allowances because he said JTG says it is not really oncall.
So if we want to be compensated, we have to prepare another paper? Hmm... basically it's up to our executives what would be the next step of plan. Either accept the deal from JTG where only resident & non-resident on-call will be given, i.e. medics, surgeons and any doctor who is on the oncall rota at RIPAS with exception of A&E and ICU doctors because they work shift duties or prepare another paper and start back again. Or maybe there is another solution...
What's your view??
We await the decision from the executive meeting and update us with the other issues with regards to the Scheme of Service proposal.
Reporting for Doctors Mess.
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15 comments:
Don't give up on your fight to improve doctors' basic pay! Doctors deserve a high salary.After all those long demanding years of study and training.And the demanding long hours of work day and night.
And also don't give up on your fight for the on-call allowance.
Don't give up :)
Acually i am a doctor from oversease was invited by SPA for interview for medical post under ministry of health Brunei really i was shocked during the interview when i came to know the offered salary, it was tooooooooooooo less from i am getting in the country where i am working currently despite i have a very long experience and postgraduate degree
also long time ago,i have visited the main hospital RIPAS i was shocked also as i found it not up to the standered to be Hospital No 1 in the country.You know guy people overseas thought what ? Thinhinkg if got chance to work in Brunei as if they own a paradise ,unfortunatly i discovered it` not so.so fighting for what guys you know my on call allowance currently is > 2/3 of the offered salary. So fighting for what guys ? fighting for new salary scale ?,fighting for on call allowance?, fighting for special allowance?!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are dreaming so much
To all bruneian doctors,
keep pushing for a better work condition.
Dear BDMC,
I don't know about the others but I think its now up to all the doctors to think seriously about their own futures with the MoH.
After all the hard work of preparing the papers and numerous revisions it is very disappointing but somewhat unsuprising that doctors weren't informed about the meeting, much less given a chance to have a say during the meeting. It is apparent that international benchmarks or best practices were not applicable here at home.
Where was the so called Brunei Medical Association in all of this?
For most of us, all this has just been a cynical delaying tactic to keep on those who had thought of leaving but were still undecided, in the hopes of things getting better from leaving. Now that things are clearer, decisions can now be made.
To those that tried - thank you for all your efforts.
To the MoH - thanks but no thanks.
That is a good point! Where was BMA in this matter? Wasn't it to protect and help our cause? I agree with you, Ex-MOH, if the wellfare of the doctors were actually priority in this matter than no thank you for the help
Unsocial working hours should be paid higher than working normal hours. WHeter you call it on-call or shift work is purely academic.
Unsocial working hours i.e. weekends & after 5pm work affects your family & social life. I don't think Brunei doctors should settle for anything less.
i think they should raise the doctors sallary. after the hardworks of studying n fighting every on-call n etc. Actually i'm still a student. A form 4 science class student f u want to know :P And to be a surgeon is my ambition. maybe i should continue to achieve my dreams. It's a waste if i kept thinking about sallary and it's about ur sincere to work. By now i'm struggling to study very hard to achieve them. maybe that's all... adios! :)
Basically, from the way I see it, and speaking as a doctor still currently in the UK and having mixed feelings about going back to Brunei, the problem lies in getting a primarily lay audience from a non-medical background to understand where we are coming from.
It's not just a question about unsocial hours, on-calls, weekend shifts, and such like. Of course, those factors should and must be taken into consideration but the real issue lies with regards to clinical responsibility - doctors demand higher salaries, not just because we have trained and work harder (although we undoubtedly do!), but because the very nature of the work we do, and our acceptance of the overall clinical responsibility for the patient allows that to be the case. You don't see other professions accepting that level of responsibility. When something goes wrong, when there is a clinical incident - the buck stops with us. Surely then, we should be recompensed for taking on such a role?
The above argument though undoubtedly true, and many clinicians will understand immediately what I mean, just won't actually wash with those on the panel, whom I assume, have never once run around as the lowly house officer on a busy general medical on-call weekend surrounded on all sides by nurses and their drug charts and early warning scores, relatives demanding to know the exact prognosis for the patient, seniors calling in and asking what the latest ABG on the BIPAP patients were and whether that urgent CT Head has already been organized, and the cardiac arrest bleep going off all at once. And all this at 6.30 pm on a Sunday night.
Instead the argument has to be laid out in pure dollars and cents to them, unfortunately. That's the way the cookie crumbles, and doctors along with other professionals like nurses, teachers, etc. just don't get the public understanding that they deserve. Put it to them flat that if the salary scheme isn't revised more and more doctors will leave the health service. Put it to them that more and more doctors currently in the UK and elsewhere will think twice about coming back. And put it to them that when it's their or their parents turn to be the recipient of this health care - for that is a malady that befalls everyone one day - that they will be beneficiaries of a substandard care, and they have only themselves to blame.
If we do not, as a nation, invest in our health, in protecting the most vulnerable members of society by giving them the qualified and highly trained professional health care teams that they deserve, made up of local doctors who know and understand the local scenario - not just health and biology, but the social set up of Bruneian families and home situations, the religious, cultural and educational background of the different strata of Bruneian society, the social stigma that certain diseases bring, and the ability to communicate effectively in a language "understandeth of the people"...and we will not be able to do that if we cannot even retain the current staff that we have now...then I suggest to the panel, that we have no right calling ourselves a civilised society for the measure of a modern civilised society is the manner in which it treats its most vulnerable members.
The panel needs to understand that among many doctors, morale is at an all time low. At every twist and turn, the new scheme of service seems to be chopped, manhandled, delayed, with no input from the doctors who are actually depending on it. I first heard about this as a second year medical student in 2002. It's 7 years down the line, and still it seems to be very much in it's infancy.
Going from the UK, with it's mangled NHS and the era of the "noctor" (nurse-doctor) to Brunei my home country should be something I look forward to with excitement. As of now though, I fear I will only be trading one bureacratic heavy institution laden with middle-managers who have no right being there (if you want to tell me how to do my job - spend the 5 years in medschool) for yet another one. At least in the NHS - there's something called the EWTD and banding for the on-call rota. Boo.
Shame. Shame.
New salary scale,on-call allowance,
special allowance--- faraway dreams
If these dreams did not come true when the economy was strong what about now while it is down !!
I THINK THE PANEL WILL SAY LIKE THIS.So you still dreaming guys!!!!
Please put to the Panel also that experienced overseas doctors who respect themselves like me will not accept to come to work in Brunei with that stubid offered salary and please add to the Panel also if you guys asking for on-call allowance and special allowance you are not asking for something strange it is exisiting globally in the developing and developed countries.I am a doctor who was dreaming to work in Brunei and that dream is totally evaporated after i sat for the interview and met that lady from SPA who delivered to me the news about the stubid offered salary ,i do not know why she was so confidant that i will accept the offer.Please put to the Panel also it is important to choose the people who are going to interview doctors coming from oveseas unless you used to recrute jobless ones.Finally as a doctor i will pray to ALLAH to bless your efforts to achieve your goals and to make your dreams come true in shaa ALLAH.
Well I don't think the argument will be won in any way - Its lose lose situation. And at the moment, we aim to lose with the best hand or in an ideal world, NOT lose at all. But then is there an ideal world. And banding may be the way to go. If you work more unsocial hours then why not get paid for it then. Though saying that, will lay people understand what unsocial hours mean?? If they can't even understand the definintion of oncall allowance and confidentiality and responsibility issues then it will be a right laugh if they can sort it out. One thing to point out is - we do get relatively more work experience. Yes imagine the headless PRHO going about trying to organise things for the seniors in the UK - yes we have that too in Bru but at least with less patients per Dr then the "continuity" of care is still there and maybe better? EWTD is dumb - reducing the work time to 48hours a week. It is really too ambitious if they think all the clinical work / research / teachings / etc can be all condensed into those hours and then be expected to get quality!! It is published that you need at least 65 hours to get the "training and expertise" to call yourself adequately trained!
c'mon guys...
I know we are grossly underpaid here in brunei.. but then again so are the nurses, firemen, policemen and many others.
Sure you get paid more in singapore, UK, USA and just about everywhere else but there's also the higher living costs, income taxes and a whole bunch of other taxes to pay.
I work in RIPAS and was talking to a few of the nurses just yesterday. I was so astonished to find that some of them have been daily paid for 3 freaking years!! (and counting). I was more astonished to find out that they (the nurses) have a fund set up each month to buy ward stuff such as opthalmoscopes and a whole bunch of other stuff. All this coming out of their own pocket. I'm unaware of any such funds being set up by us doctors.
Okay, so its a problem with the admin u might say. it always is isnt it. i feel that this issue with our on-call allowance has been ongoing for this long because if our application gets approved, then they'll have to do the same for the nurses, physios etc. I strongly feel the nurses deserve a lot more than they're getting.
When i got back from the UK, i was just taken aback by how much the nurses do here. taking bloods, catheter insertion even ABGs. worse still, we dont even have to fill in any of the request forms. it all gets done for us. we r so spoilt from that aspect.
anywaaaay, back to doctor stuff, on-calls are a hit and miss in brunei..i have to say when it's busy it can be as busy as any other hospital.however, you dont get the smelly drunk man or the druggies here. most patients are quite pleasant and cooperative.
I, for one have thoroughly enjoyed working in brunei. i feel more appreciated and respected by the patients, ward staff and the general public.
having said that, i do hope that this on-call allowance gets approved so that we can all buy bigger and faster cars...haha
just my opinion....
c'mon guys...
I know we are grossly underpaid here in brunei.. but then again so are the nurses, firemen, policemen and many others.
Sure you get paid more in singapore, UK, USA and just about everywhere else but there's also the higher living costs, income taxes and a whole bunch of other taxes to pay.
I work in RIPAS and was talking to a few of the nurses just yesterday. I was so astonished to find that some of them have been daily paid for 3 freaking years!! (and counting). I was more astonished to find out that they (the nurses) have a fund set up each month to buy ward stuff such as opthalmoscopes and a whole bunch of other stuff. All this coming out of their own pocket. I'm unaware of any such funds being set up by us doctors.
Okay, so its a problem with the admin u might say. it always is isnt it. i feel that this issue with our on-call allowance has been ongoing for this long because if our application gets approved, then they'll have to do the same for the nurses, physios etc. I strongly feel the nurses deserve a lot more than they're getting.
When i got back from the UK, i was just taken aback by how much the nurses do here. taking bloods, catheter insertion even ABGs. worse still, we dont even have to fill in any of the request forms. it all gets done for us. we r so spoilt from that aspect.
anywaaaay, back to doctor stuff, on-calls are a hit and miss in brunei..i have to say when it's busy it can be as busy as any other hospital.however, you dont get the smelly drunk man or the druggies here. most patients are quite pleasant and cooperative.
I, for one have thoroughly enjoyed working in brunei. i feel more appreciated and respected by the patients, ward staff and the general public.
having said that, i do hope that this on-call allowance gets approved so that we can all buy bigger and faster cars...haha
just my opinion....
RAISE THE DOCTORS SALLARIES NOW!They deserve it after hardworks that they contribute. it's not fair if they're paid with this amount of sallary. Really UNFAIR.
agree with you on the nursing front. they really are under appreciated! and i for one am proud of our nurses. they work hard and even harder than the doctors and they dont even get paid fairly. the nursing officers or relevant authorities need to pull their socks up. pay the nurses adequately and back pay them the salary owed. give them jobs!! there are so many nurses post nursing school who are waiting to work. so redistribute them then. how is it fair that they get their qualification and then have no job but have to work in other non health related work - they have mouths to feed too!
If you are really unhappy in Brunei, just serve your bond and leave. Because the reality is, bigger salaries ain't gonna happen boys and girls. No one is listening to us doctors. So pass your exams and leave! Greener pastures across the pond, but be prepared to work hard.
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